To complain, or not to complain, that is THE question

Hi All,

interested in a non-fiery conversation about complaining etiquette. Couldn't find anything when I quizzed Miss Emily Post for reference, but I believe this is a subjective decision to the customer/diner.

Let me preface with the belief that I am not asking if it is prerequisite to complain to the powers that be before posting on this forum; my personal belief is that a conversation should occur with management to round out the experience and give a beginning, middle and end to an experience related on Hotbytes.

That said, I'd be curious as to opinion on complaining in general, removing the forum postings from the equation. I hold that personality, not common courtesy, dictates the behaviour of the person. Marsha had a good point yesterday about the need to consider other diners in the case of potentially hazardous concerns (that should be related to management only, since they are hard to confirm individually, as AnnMarie experienced). Even still, I think the customer does not have an obligation to change their lunch/dinner behaviour to reflect their service. It is not a question of manning up, or having cojones, but the way one was raised. I was raised to ignore base and even rude treatment, up to a point. But where is that point?

Long post short, does one always have to complain up the food chain? Not to earn the right to complain in a public forum; I just wonder if many customers believe that to do so is "common courtesy."

Looking forward to insight, Rea

Rea, first off, I'm very impressed with the way you prefaced your post.....and am in agreement that things do get a bit "robust" in the debate department here, and it's all very well intentioned.....

Now, my personal opinion (no comments from the peanut gallery, please---I know I'm a loud-mouth, and am rather proud of the fact) is that if you feel that it warrents mention, it probably does. If I were management, I'd want to know about a problem in my establishment.

Now the tamber of the complaint should be relative to the problem itself.....Yes, if somebody spill red wine on my white linen dinner jacket, I would be none to pleased, and would ensure that folks knew about it. If it were a glass of water slipping off a tray and splashing.....not a big deal.

As far as the public forum, I feel that is a subjective call on the party involved. What might seem important to me (dare I go back to my post about dress codes, and brunch at the Oak Room a couple of years back) might be petty to others, and vice versa. But, that is the wonderful thing about our society. Opinions can flow freely, and hopefully, unbiasedly.

In my opinion the answer is quite simple. You should complain and keep going up the "food chain" until you feel your problem has been resolved to your satisfaction! As far as posting in a public forum, I feel that if only appropriate if you have addressed the problem with the restaurants management.

Pretty much what Bill said. I have no problem talking about sub par service or food without complaining to management, but a line has to be drawn. If the service or food is so bad that I'm thinking about not going back, that is when management needs addressed before bashing on a forum. If the review or comment has a good chance of swaying others from not going to a restaurant then management should have been told about the issue.

Yes, if somebody spill red wine on my white linen dinner jacket, I would be none to pleased, and would ensure that folks knew about it.

Mr. Veneman,
One does not wear white after labor day. If someone spills red wine on your white linen dinner jacket all the better. I'd rather not be in a dining room with such lack of fashion sense.

I guess the answer is simple Bill, but looking at some service today, is it always worth it? If you go up the chain and no one cares, or takes it seriously, or your problem, say bad service, can't be solved, or you don't get to see the paddling of the perpetrator, is it worth getting up in arms to go through the effort? Or does it not upset you as some people get when they get passionate about something , saving you the high blood pressure?

And, yes, when I said some people, I meant me.

I guess the answer is simple Bill, but looking at some service today, is it always worth it? If you go up the chain and no one cares, or takes it seriously, or your problem, say bad service, can't be solved, or you don't get to see the paddling of the perpetrator, is it worth getting up in arms to go through the effort? Or does it not upset you as some people get when they get passionate about something , saving you the high blood pressure?

And, yes, when I said some people, I meant me.

Rea, all valid points.....

Now, I have seen, in my tenure with this forum inparticular, that the pen can be mightier than the sword.....there have been some extreamly productive rants to come down the pike, and several that Robin had to excersise admin duty and halt altogether. But all in all, I've seen them show 1) productive results, or 2) the place in question has been short lived and the point became mute.

Mr. Pierce,

Labor day was just a couple of short weeks ago......I've not cleaned out the closet yet

Unless the situation was particularly egregious I seldom complain to management these days. Experience has proven to me that it is difficult to "correct" a dining experience gone bad, after the fact. Damage has been done, and a comped dessert or an entire meal will not compensate for a ruined birthday, anniversary, or Tuesday for that matter. A well managed operation will know if they are performing well. If a manger can't "read the room", it isn't my task to be their QC point-person.
Also, I'm hesitant to post negative experiences on a public forum, but that is just me, being me.
BP
Edited to insert "NOT" in third sentence

I don't post negative experiences on here because of the business I'm in.

I also don't comment because of a bad experience with either the food or service at a restaurant, because I know both can be a fluke (MOST of the time).

However, the management acting a jerk over the phone or like I'm smelling up the place because I dare walk in to to talk to them about our show, that's a different story. I don't comment on here, but I NEVER, EVER patronize these places; and secondly, when someone (in my personal life) asks, I NEVER, EVER recommend them (I get asked to recommend restaurants every-day, several times a day).

So, if I weren't in this business, part 2 wouldn't be a factor. And I might give honest opinions on part 1, if the place is just terrible...

Sometimes there's no point in complaining to management. For example if there is something about the food I don't happen to like...that doesn't make it "wrong". Some things just aren't to my liking for a thousand minute reasons. I might not actively complain...but if asked I won't hold back either.

We had dinner at one of the more upscale places in town and my wife ordered bouillabaisse. What she received was a seafood and rice dish that wasn't great but not bad, but wasn't bouillabaisse either. She was relatively unhappy with her meal...but did we complain...no....we just won't order this chef's version of bouillabaisse again. We experience this scenario much more frequently than some huge disaster.

Sometimes there's no point in complaining to management. For example if there is something about the food I don't happen to like...that doesn't make it "wrong". Some things just aren't to my liking for a thousand minute reasons. I might not actively complain...but if asked I won't hold back either.

We had dinner at one of the more upscale places in town and my wife ordered bouillabaisse. What she received was a seafood and rice dish that wasn't great but not bad, but wasn't bouillabaisse either. She was relatively unhappy with her meal...but did we complain...no....we just won't order this chef's version of bouillabaisse again. We experience this scenario much more frequently than some huge disaster.

Your bouillabaisse story reminded me of a wine incident at Avalon. We watched in amazement as the table next to us refused to pay for 2 different bottles of wine, simply because they didn't like them.

[Robin Garr]

Your bouillabaisse story reminded me of a wine incident at Avalon. We watched in amazement as the table next to us refused to pay for 2 different bottles of wine, simply because they didn't like them.

Hey, I think I just got a topic for my next LEO wine blurb.

Has anybody read Charlie Trotter's "In Service" (I am reaching through my foggy memory)? I am a firm believer that the establishment has the power to make it right, including going above and beyond and comping all or part of the meal. I would do that in my place, and would (hopefully) empower my employees to do this.

That being said, it never ceases to amaze me when customers expect or demand this. Even in justifiable situations, (wrong order, spilt drink, bad service) I think it is bad manners to demand something for free. I can't think of another industry where the patron has that ability. Service should take care of it for me. And if it doesn't, as with any other industry, I won't come back again. Unless my foggy memory clouds and it is late, or my usual excuse, "I had a Hops Slam". In which case I might. Places change, look at Woody's and Juanita's.

I liked the view in another thread where the poster indicated that service determines her satisfaction. It reminds me why I am in this business, because dining is an experience, and the service can elevate a so-so meal into an adventure. Or a disaster into a save!

Your bouillabaisse story reminded me of a wine incident at Avalon. We watched in amazement as the table next to us refused to pay for 2 different bottles of wine, simply because they didn't like them.

How did the restaurant respond?

Sometimes there's no point in complaining to management. For example if there is something about the food I don't happen to like...that doesn't make it "wrong". Some things just aren't to my liking for a thousand minute reasons. I might not actively complain...but if asked I won't hold back either.

We had dinner at one of the more upscale places in town and my wife ordered bouillabaisse. What she received was a seafood and rice dish that wasn't great but not bad, but wasn't bouillabaisse either. She was relatively unhappy with her meal...but did we complain...no....we just won't order this chef's version of bouillabaisse again. We experience this scenario much more frequently than some huge disaster.

Your bouillabaisse story reminded me of a wine incident at Avalon. We watched in amazement as the table next to us refused to pay for 2 different bottles of wine, simply because they didn't like them.

How did the restaurant respond?

I'm pretty sure they gave them the bottles for free. They took the first bottle back, after the "man at the table" tasted and apporoved and the ladies didn't like it. He told the server, "we're not paying for this wine, the ladies don't like it". The server then brought out the second selection, the ladies did the tasting and disapproved and the server took that bottle back. The table then ordered cocktails.